Never Do A Voluntary Repo - The Podcast

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 09/03/2015 at 09:00 • Filed to: None

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Yesterday, Jalopnik ran a piece I wrote about why I advise you to never do a voluntary repossession. As I suspected, the response was strong. Both from those who were unaware people did such things and those who had done such a thing to their detriment.

I often try to guess who will be offended by what I write. This time I thought it would be the impound yard operators (who got good and angry at me !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . A guy in WA state even challenged me to a fist fight!) But, it was the auctioneers. Funny bunch, those auctioneers. One tried telling me that bank repo cars routinely sell for their full trade-in value at auction. Another said the bank repos usually sell for what the borrowers owed. (They can’t both be right; those are two different values.) One said that used car dealers prefer bank repos because the banks are so “honest” in their descriptions of the cars. Pray tell, how much more or less honest can you get when the full description is “Bank Repo”?

But I digress. I recorded a podcast and video on this topic where I add the element that is me talking along with a few more details and anecdotes from my 23 years of practice. The cool thing here is that many people ask me for transcripts of my podcasts. I don’t make them but from time to time I do post a short write up of the material.

This time you can simply go back and read the piece I wrote on the topic if you missed it. You could travel back in time and read it when it first crossed Jalopnik’s front page. Since it is just a day back, you’ll only need a pound or so of Seaborgium to fuel your time/matter redistribunator. But as you know, the stuff is kind of expensive and only has a half-life of 114 seconds. If you don’t have the wherewithal to do that, just !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

The audio of the podcast:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

And the video:

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 23 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

Speakerboy1114 > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 09:20

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I can tell you that it was harder for me as a car salesman. Trying to convince a potential buyer that repos are not typically what they’ve seen on reality shows can be difficult. They all think the car has been abused, and that there may be unseen damage somewhere.

Flavien Vidal > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 09:22

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Really interesting thanks! This is why I buy my cars cash in hands lol... I don’t drive an Aston (for now) but I’ll never have to deal with this kind of shit :S

Hello from Japan btw! :)

SteveLehto > Speakerboy1114 09/03/2015 at 09:24

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And that’s the problem: The unknown. You have to factor something in for that - and by factor, I mean reduce the price some.

SteveLehto > Flavien Vidal 09/03/2015 at 09:26

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I sometimes look to see where the podcast downloads are occurring and always like to see the more exotic places. When I worked in radio, I knew where the listeners were (nearby). Now they’re all over the world.

Thanks for the note.

Flavien Vidal > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 09:33

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What are the most exotic/smallest countries where you get listeners? (Something like Bhoutan, Vatican, Tajikistan...etc. Basically something more exotic than Japan :) )

SteveLehto > Flavien Vidal 09/03/2015 at 09:40

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Kazakhstan, Slovenia, Panama, and Malaysia - to name a few. I wonder how many of them are expats and how many are natives who are just looking for something in English. If English is their second language, I give them credit if they can keep up with how fast I talk.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 09:43

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The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

Be careful, the bar association might see that information as helpful legal advice.

moetop > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 09:43

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So here’s a good question I have , that’s semi related. My Girlfriend at the time (Now wife) had a loan that went to collections. A guy showed up at our door at about 9pm one night threatening us with all sorts of things, and one of the things he threatened was, taking her car (which was paid off). He said he had a tow truck coming, bla bla bla. The police were there the whole deal.

At that point could she have sold me the car for a dollar signed the title and then he couldn’t do (take) anything?

In the end we gave him $500 that night to go away (because I didn’t think of the brilliant idea above till he left) , and worked out the rest later. Would that have worked, because he doesn’t have any right to come into the house? (we called the cops, and this was the first real contact we had with him.) We supposedly got something in the mail, and he said he stopped by several times which we never saw him, or any other notification.

Think! aka anotherburner111122223333 > Flavien Vidal 09/03/2015 at 09:43

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Thank you for the mental image of the Popemobile getting repossessed.

“Wait! But its got the Holy Ghost in the backseat!!!...”

SteveLehto > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 09/03/2015 at 09:44

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It’s a vicious cycle! (Or it MIGHT be. I can’t actually tell you that if you are going to act upon it).

SteveLehto > moetop 09/03/2015 at 09:49

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Depends on the state but showing up at your house that late may have been a problem under the various debt-collection statutes. Also, they can’t just “take stuff” unless they have a legal right to do so. Generally, that would mean they are repossession collateral of a loan (which was not the case here) OR they have a writ of execution against property which would give them that right. But they have to get that from a court also.

I have sent a deputy out with a writ and it is a powerful collection tool. But in your case, the sale and transfer would really only be plausible if you had done the transfer and gotten it registered with the state and so on. While you can often buy and sell on a handshake, most states consider the titling process to be quite important towards proving ownership.

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 09:51

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Boy, I didn’t realize that you had such a history with my state ;-)

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 09:53

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I don’t know, I think you could probably get away with labeling it as pro bono and maybe even get out of having to represent that random stoner kid who got caught sparking up in the parking lot of a school next to a police station...

SteveLehto > Prophet of hoon 09/03/2015 at 09:54

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That was one of the funniest things that has happened to me so far while writing here. I offered to let him write a “counterpoint” to my piece and promised him I would post it verbatim. He declined.

I guess he talks with his fists! (Which kind of proves my point, if you think about it).

mazdaspeeder > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 09:54

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Steve, this is great info, but the thing that amazes me is that so much of it is just common sense. If you buy something, sign a contract, then decide not to meet the terms of the contract, then you’re still on the hook. “That’s not fair” or “you don’t understand my situation” is no defense. I marvel that people don’t understand this concept.

moetop > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 09:56

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It was Michigan. It was so long ago I am not %100 sure he had a “writ of execution”, but I remember he did have something signed by a judge, so he may have had one. I read it, but I am not sure what it was. From the way he was making it sound he was able to get whatever that was because we “failed to contact them, or respond to contact”. Something like that. Which once again this was the first time we ever saw him. My wife probably threw out anything in the mail, thinking it was something for her Ex.

PS thanks for the reply.

Flavien Vidal > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 09:57

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I’m french and i think you’re easy to understand... being fast is no problem, being articulate is what matter. Some guy from the bayou, or Guy Martin, it takes some time getting used to haha

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 09:57

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In my work as a PI I learned from the lawyers I worked for say nothing that can’t be backed up by Video or GPS data. (As you might guess I was doing Family Law Investigations)

SteveLehto > mazdaspeeder 09/03/2015 at 09:57

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And it all begins with the Signed Contract. NO ONE READS IT BEFORE THEY SIGN IT! It’s all there in black and white, as they say. I’ve talked to people and asked them to go pull the contract and read it and they act surprised . . . which is odd since all of the language they are surprised by now is right there above their signature. And has been in their possession this whole time.

SteveLehto > Flavien Vidal 09/03/2015 at 09:59

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Do you listen to the podcast or watch the video? I’m curious if the audio is as easy to understand as the video, to a person whose native language is not English.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 10:01

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I had to do this once. It was late 2007. I had been unemployed for over 6 months after losing my first job out of school. Owed over 20k. It was a purchase I never should have made to begin with. Job market was bleak, especially for someone with little experience. Tried everything else first, but no luck, the economy was circling the drain. Agreed to voluntary repo and scheduled a time for the vehicle to go away. Fast forward to now, I was incredibly lucky as I never heard anything from the bank, they folded in 2008. Nothing from that situation ever showed up on my credit nor did I have to pay another cent. Lucky.

That being said, I completely agree with you and would not do it again or recommend anyone else do it. You would probably have a better chance at winning the lottery than duplicating my situation.

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 10:08

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No one wants to admit they might not have thought through all the angles - but threatening physical violence when he’s already wrong? It’s funny, in a sad way.

Hiroku > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 10:12

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English is my second language and I can understand the podcast just as easily as the video. You speak on a very clear way which makes it very easy to understand.

Keith O'Toole > mazdaspeeder 09/03/2015 at 10:12

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As one of the people who has forfeited on a car loan, I want to point out: I didn’t think any of it was unfair, I didn’t think anyone should allow an exception for me, I just made a horrible financial decision when I bought the car and had no way out of it. The only surprise was just how little the loan company let the car go for at auction. Steve’s note here about the auctioneers is amusing to me because my car was worth many thousands more than they got for it (objectively - not in car seller fantasy land) even though that was still many thousands less than what I owed. Knowing that now, I would have tried harder to work with the loan company to figure out a way to sell the car myself (though - still, upside down is upside down... can’t release a lien when the lien is worth more than the car by a few grand and there’s nowhere to draw that few grand from.)

SteveLehto > Prophet of hoon 09/03/2015 at 10:14

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A lot of people - and I mean A LOT - read stuff I write and think that whey I saw “Some people do this -” that I am saying, “All people do this -”

So when I write an article about something a mechanic did, I get the notallmechanics nonsense. It happens with every field I write about. Even if I specifically say “Not all [trade] people do this,” I will inevitably get the, “You’re wrong! I am a [trade] person and I don’t do that!”

SteveLehto > Hiroku 09/03/2015 at 10:15

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Thanks. It’s good to know!

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 10:23

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My cynical side (which is most of me) thinks, whenever I hear the person defending their position, is “yes, but you’ve thought about it” which, in some religions, is the same as actually doing the crime. Or, put another way, but-for their own insecurities, would be out doing the very thing they’re railing against. What most don’t get is it is okay to consider it, even admit to considering it, just simply don’t do it. Then you won’t get into an argument (where you look pretty silly) online with a person that argues for a living.... which brings me to my pet peeve - when I’m right, don’t resort to the “you won because you’re a lawyer” to which I respond, “thank you for admitting I’m right.” Their response is rarely helpful to reaching consensus.

SteveLehto > Prophet of hoon 09/03/2015 at 10:26

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I’ve also had a few people who couldn’t defend their positions get mad and say I was being “mean” by pointing out they were wrong. Not in the way I pointed it out, but that simply doing so was mean.

Flavien Vidal > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 10:26

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I listen to the podcast as I do other things while listening and the audio quality is better there... But as I said, you’re one of those American with a very “neutral” accent combined with the fact that you’re articulate (your job most likely helps with that) and this makes you overall very easy to listen to, granted that one does speak English pretty well in the first place of course.

T > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 10:30

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I went through this after a divorce. The ex was given the car we bough jointly less than a year earlier, and agreed to take out a loan from her parents to pay it off and remove my name from it. 3 months later not only had she not paid it off, she hadn’t made any payments at all (I had been forwarding her the late notices). I made arrangements with the bank to voluntarily repossess and provided them the spare key and took them to where I knew it was parked. I wound up eating $4500 on the deal at the end of the day but never had to deal with her again. She reported it stolen and tried to take me back to court but given that she hadn’t followed through on the separation agreement she was out of luck.

defenestrae > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 10:31

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As the victim of an illegal, involuntary repo, I can definitely tell you that they sell for nowhere near their market price. My 2001 Ford Focus, which I bought for $15k and owed $13k on sold for just $4k at auction when it was worth $11k. I got stuck with about $11k by the time all the junk fees were rolled in, and I spent years fighting it.

After my incident, I started to work with other military personnel to help them understand their rights under the Soldiers and Sailors Civil Relief Act (and more often then not, tell them to get their shit together), get them connected to financial help and education programs through military and civilian resources and prevent them from being victims of both unscrupulous lenders and their own stupidity. In most cases, cars sold for between 50% and 70% of their fair market value, which was typically well below their loan balance. The worst was a car that was accidentally sent to the crusher even though it was brand new and completely stock. (Banks will sometimes send cars that have modified engines or suspensions to the crushers to avoid liability. That wasn’t the case here.)

That doesn’t even get into the cost of the personal possessions that were in the vehicle at repo that usually disappeared. I really don’t want to hear from the impound yard operators, because more often then not when the equipment was tracked down at some pawn shop, car stereo store or on eBay, it was traced directly back to an employee of theirs.

Phil_L > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 10:37

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Hmmm... I’ve never tried Seaborgium in my redistribunator.

Steve: Once again, clear ideas and clear writing. Thanks for sharing on Jalopnik.

SteveLehto > Phil_L 09/03/2015 at 11:04

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Seaborgium is what all the savvy time travelers are using next year.

Thanks for the note!

PB&Jealous > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 12:40

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I worked several years in a national auto finance company, and handled everything from customer service to repos, charge offs, and bankruptcies. (Thanks to being fluent in SpanishSpanish.) In the years of work I experienced their, I rarely ever witnessed a voluntary or involuntary surrender pay off the balance of the loan. Sure was a great fountain of financial knowledge when I was much younger.

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 12:42

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the new word is “bullying” - of course, the proper response is

“I’m just exercising my freedom of expression, and that expression is you are wrong. Perhaps now you can invoke your right to stay silent thereby not continuing to prove what we both already know - that you’re wrong and you’re simply digging a deeper hole. With that said, perhaps you could cement in that hole and have a nice swimming pool?

Things tend go sideways there

random-person > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 13:46

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Another great podcast. I’ve never considered doing this or known anyone that has (to my knowledge), but I could definitely imagine people seeing it as an appealing option if they don’t think it through.

Would you mind a podcast critique? While I think your shirt is fine for everyday wear, the tight striping is really uncomfortable to look at over video. If you don’t have the video maximized, compression makes it blur a little every time you move. A bigger pattern, or a plain shirt would probably be best.

SteveLehto > random-person 09/03/2015 at 14:19

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I usually wear a solid dark color.

Thanks.

BlueVillain > PB&Jealous 09/03/2015 at 14:27

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>I rarely ever witnessed a voluntary or involuntary surrender pay off the balance of the loan.

Of course not, why would they? They’re already going to have a huge ding on their credit for the repo, another ding for not paying back the dosh isn’t really going to matter much at that point.

e holder > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 19:11

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Do you keep a diary or other records that you can review to see what happened over those 23 years, or do you just remember the high points?

e holder > SteveLehto 09/03/2015 at 19:15

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Did you go do the fist fight? Who won? Did you sue him afterward?

e holder > Flavien Vidal 09/03/2015 at 21:08

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That is NOT a neutral accent!! It’s not bad. I wouldn’t say he sounds like a Youpie, but it’s definitely there!!

Flavien Vidal > e holder 09/03/2015 at 21:10

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It sounds like a pretty standard american accent to me... Very basic and what I would call “neutral”

e holder > e holder 09/03/2015 at 21:17

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“Yuppie?”

e holder > defenestrae 09/03/2015 at 21:25

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Did you ever pay your debt?

SteveLehto > e holder 09/03/2015 at 21:47

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I remember the good stuff but I do have a lot of the files I can look at if need be.

SteveLehto > e holder 09/03/2015 at 21:47

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The winner has no need to sue.

Whitesmoke > SteveLehto 09/04/2015 at 08:49

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Good advice. I had to swallow my pride and borrow many thousands from my youngest son. I worked three jobs to pay the lad back. Life is supposed to work the other way around, but on the other hand I am so glad my two children are, unlike me, very successful and don’t need to borrow money from anyone.